Starfish Songwriters

The Sandbox => MP3 songs for Review/Critique => Topic started by: redwriter1 on March 23, 2026, 03:18:28 pm


Title: Re: Kindergarten
Post by: Tex on April 22, 2026, 09:17:12 pm
I've been told you can prompt it to be like Andy, and get something close.  But I've never tried something like that. 
Title: Re: Kindergarten
Post by: redwriter1 on April 22, 2026, 09:11:01 pm
Yes, I noticed that too, and it's a huge problem  But I had to do the spoken part as it's own thing. You can't tell Suno to take this singer's voice and make them talk. (not that I know of , anyway).

I would love to have Andy Griffith's voice, or something like it, but can't figure that one out either.
Title: Re: Kindergarten
Post by: Tex on April 22, 2026, 08:47:13 pm
Well the voice in the intro is way too deep for the voice singing the song, that might be part of what hit me wrong.

When you get it like you want post it at TSF and see what kind of feedback you get.
Title: Re: Kindergarten
Post by: redwriter1 on April 22, 2026, 08:41:06 pm
Fair enough, I just thought it hasn't been done in so long, it might grab someone's attention as something new and different.

It's only been done a few times in country music history.

Title: Re: Kindergarten
Post by: Tex on April 22, 2026, 08:38:11 pm
I see what your talking about.... but I'm not sold on the spoken intro.... but each to their own....

Good Luck with it.
Title: Re: Kindergarten
Post by: redwriter1 on April 22, 2026, 03:35:18 pm
Well I did the "unthinkable" and added a speaking intro. I haven't figured out how to get it to smoothly transition, but if anyone knows how, that would be great!

https://suno.com/s/uq1nLHTKWnf9nz5v
Title: Re: Kindergarten
Post by: Elvis Nash on April 18, 2026, 08:03:57 pm
There isn't any rules , if it works , it works
Title: Re: Kindergarten
Post by: redwriter1 on April 18, 2026, 12:43:12 pm
I'm not sure that's a hard and fast rule Rob.

The Devil went down to Georgia ........... not even in the chorus.  Just one example.

Title: Re: Kindergarten
Post by: Rob B. on April 18, 2026, 12:28:57 pm
You can call it "Kindergarten" if your chorus looks something like this:

Share everything and play fair
Say you're sorry like you really care
Put things back where they belong
Don't take other people's things cus that's wrong
Clean up your own mess & wonder at the weather
Hold hands and stick together
Love is all that's really real, darlin
All you need to know you learned
In kindergarten
Title: Re: Kindergarten
Post by: redwriter1 on April 18, 2026, 08:20:34 am
That's a good question, what should the title be do you think?

I was just thinking "kindergarten"... if only for the reason that someone would come across the title and say... "what could that song be about?"
Title: Re: Kindergarten
Post by: Rob B. on April 17, 2026, 11:00:20 pm
Much better. What's the title of the song? In my opinion the bridge still doesn't work.
Title: Re: Kindergarten
Post by: redwriter1 on April 17, 2026, 03:48:46 pm
Here ya go.

I took out the intro verse based on various feedback. I also changed verse 2.

https://suno.com/s/66RQRDOXnimH6i7e
Title: Re: Kindergarten
Post by: Tex on April 17, 2026, 03:32:42 pm
Hay Rob, the version she has up now isn't the newest one and she has solved the two verses being the same size.

Maybe Kay-lynn will post her updated version.
Title: Re: Kindergarten
Post by: Rob B. on April 17, 2026, 03:22:49 pm
Kay-lynn,
Overall, I like this song - there’s a lot of good stuff in here. I especially like the kindergarten theme; it’s a strong and appealing idea.
A few thoughts came to mind as I listened. The intro feels a bit long to me - between the instrumental and the opening lines, it takes a while before the song really gets going. I found myself wondering if those relatively long opening lines are all necessary, or if the song might benefit from getting to the first verse a bit sooner.
Related to that, the first verse comes in around 1:15 and the first chorus around 1:45, which might be a little late. Bringing those in earlier could help the song engage the listener more quickly.
I also noticed that the verses have slightly different lengths, with verse 1 being longer. You might want to look at whether you want that contrast or a more balanced structure.
The chorus is strong, but I’d personally love to hear a bit more of the kindergarten theme woven throughout the song to really tie everything together. And maybe consider adding a rhyme in the bridge to give it a bit more cohesion.
Just a few thoughts - take whatever resonates. Hope this helps!
Title: Re: Kindergarten
Post by: Elvis Nash on April 06, 2026, 12:08:43 pm
its a fresh angle and hook
Title: Re: Kindergarten
Post by: redwriter1 on April 01, 2026, 12:19:52 pm
MmM,, I don't know I think you may have convinced me to put "but" in there.. haha now I'm confused. lol

I think the bridge is short and sweet the way it was intended and I really don't wanna put "prison" in a song like this.

That would be a totally different song. lol

You're so sweet for looking at it again though, thanks!

Title: Re: Kindergarten
Post by: billdraper on April 01, 2026, 10:52:10 am
In summary:

I like the intro, verses,and chorus as is.
reading again this am, I don’t think the “but “ is needed.

And(something new), maybe rethink the bridge, as some 7 year olds may be headed for prison?
Title: Re: Kindergarten
Post by: billdraper on March 31, 2026, 06:56:58 pm
But…you wouldn’t be in, any of this trouble
if you had just learned in kindergarten to:

Chorus

It adds somewhat additional push to the higher intellectual adult level of the verses from the child trainer rules in chorus…is it enough to bridge the leap/gap.?

Imagine this
Two people conversing. Both went to the same school as kids. One is behind bars, the other a well paid prison social worker, who talks with prisoners.

Prisoner says how did you do it, how come you know so much? Just kindergarten lessons man,that’s all. the social worker says.
Title: Re: Kindergarten
Post by: redwriter1 on March 31, 2026, 04:36:12 pm
Bill, do you agree with adding the word "but" as was suggested? I'm curious.

I think the intro verse is just being drawn out too long, I'm trying to fix that.

And Bill

You absolutely got where I was going with this.  That's such a relief.  Your life gets more complicated as you get older and the problems are bigger, however, the core concepts that you learn early will serve you well forever.

There is no gray area if you just remember the basics. Don't take other people's stuff and you won't go to jail.. duh.. (grin)

Tex, I can't thank you enough for pointing on the hook that I didn't repeat, stupid mistake and obvious.

I'm very happy with the melody, but since I added the intro, gonna have to pick up my guitar again and sing it so Suno stops messing it up.. hahah
Title: Re: Kindergarten
Post by: serenowolf on March 31, 2026, 04:33:05 pm
I think the intro verse is unnecessary and delays the chorus too much, it really doesn't do anything for the song IMO...I stand by what I suggested before...it doesn't sound like you want to restructure, so I think just inserting "but" before "all you need to know" is the easiest solution...that highlights that the chorus is different and more simple than the philosophical truths in the verse...I think it would then be a good idea to show how this is true in verse 2...I think that would create a clear and cohesive "why" to the song...of course, the choice is yours and i don't want to keep picking your song apart and discourage you...so I'll prob step back on this one and let you marinate and create with it. Looking forward to seeing what you end up with...
Title: Re: Kindergarten
Post by: billdraper on March 31, 2026, 04:19:41 pm
I like the subject of this lyric and the deep analysis.some great discussion.

Train the children. They don’t nearly understand. But good solid civilized habits learned early will kick in, with rewards later in life.

How did I fall so far said the man being lead off to prison. It’s not a rocket science lesson in living. Most folks now the lessons as well.

Hey you messed up. Remember how easy it was when you were a kid?
Kids don’t have adult problems though. They still steal candy at the corner store…old Mr jones, the blind codger, he’ll never miss a few candies,  Joey says, 15 year’s later he is lead off to jail for embessiling funds from wealthy clients saying…..they will never miss the bucks.

Good message lyric, important.
Bill

Title: Re: Kindergarten
Post by: redwriter1 on March 31, 2026, 10:21:15 am
Note taken, I'll go look again.  Thank you for pointing that out again.  It's appreciated.
Title: Re: Kindergarten
Post by: Tex on March 30, 2026, 09:30:07 pm
Kay-lynn, this works just fine.

I still think you need to end your 2nd verse with something like your 1st verse, you know Kindergarten juts before going into the chorus again. JMO.

Good Luck
Title: Re: Kindergarten
Post by: redwriter1 on March 30, 2026, 02:47:23 pm
I added an intro verse.

WE all remember when Opie asked his Pa, what did I do wrong
If nobody knows what I did, why can’t I just move on
Andy said son, what you do always means something
Even if nobody sees you, you’ll feel it with the knowing


Let me know if it works to get to Verse 1.

I didn't want it to be that slow, but I'll go try to fix that.

https://suno.com/s/6FTQwMBaJ3zGM8HJ
Title: Re: Kindergarten
Post by: redwriter1 on March 29, 2026, 09:54:50 pm
I'm still thinking a good intro verse to set up the song would be something that Andy says to Opie. We all know who those people are right>

Something like. 

Intro verse: And then Opie said to Andy, how will I know I'm doing the right thing. it's about how you treat people who can't do anything for you.

But I'm trying to find a context where he asks him that.
Title: Re: Kindergarten
Post by: serenowolf on March 29, 2026, 09:44:07 pm
Oh no, Def wasn't my intent to make you write a whole new song....that's why I put my responses in to see if I was being harsh or going down the wrong path....I think you have two choices...stay the course, don't change much, really just add "but" as discussed and it makes a lot more sense to me with the contrast....orrrr pivot to the restructure I discussed...I don't think either route is a whole new song really....lastly...I forgot to say, yes I don't typically love what  AI puts out lyrically...by no means am I suggesting to use the lyrics it came up with in the discussion....just hoping it springs forth ideas...ok, I'll leave you be on this one....good luck!!!
Title: Re: Kindergarten
Post by: redwriter1 on March 29, 2026, 02:22:06 pm
That certainly gives me a lot to go on.  I like the idea of more furniture for sure.

I've run it through chatgpt sometimes too, most of the time the lines it comes up with are awful and not human at all, but it does point out some things that I will consider, just like I would a co-writer.

I did read your attachment and it was very interesting that you not only asked about my lyric, but your response to it.. now that's being thorough! lol

thank you again for all your help, I may have to write a totally new song.
Title: Re: Kindergarten
Post by: serenowolf on March 29, 2026, 12:44:29 am
I hope this is ok....I sometimes do use AI as a sounding board...usually end up using my own lyrics but "talking" to it, helps me work through to THE idea....I ran through this process with yours...if you would like to read the convo here it is...but essentially, I think if you restructure this, it will hit harder...start with adults in sticky situations, a lawyer lying to win a case, politician taking a bribe, couple on the rocks....make your first verse your chorus, but end with "but all you really need to know you learned in kindergarten"...use the 2nd verse to explain how those simple rules solve adult problems...and your chorus could be your bridge...this is completely just a thought and if you think your way is better, please be true to yourself...

Funny enough as I type this, I just had the thought that it could be as simple as adding the pivot line mentioned above..."but all you need to know" to end the first verse...then you can keep your structure....I do think some lines could be better like the weather...also just came to the realization that kids are usually 5 in kindergarten, so to keep the theme, you may want to rework your bridge anyways....I added all that to the Gemini convo....

https://g.co/gemini/share/3544fc25756e
Title: Re: Kindergarten
Post by: serenowolf on March 28, 2026, 11:54:49 pm
Sure, my name is Raul...I'll add it to my intro post as well...ok, I kinda hate I've made you spin your wheels on this so much...I don't think you need to get so complicated with it...when I struggle with a song like this...I like to dial it back to the root of it all...why did I write this song? Why does the world need to hear it? What sets it apart from other songs but also how is it similar to chart topping songs (if that's your goal)? If you can answer those, I think we can better help you get to where you want to go...because right now you have a very sweet song that hasn't hit it's potential in my eyes, but that could be very untrue if your purpose doesn't match what I think it is....does that makes sense?
Title: Re: Kindergarten
Post by: redwriter1 on March 28, 2026, 07:57:44 pm
I would love to address you by your regular name if you care to disclose it.

To your point, the verses are adult statements and the chorus is from child's point of view (the poster).

I know it's not right yet and I want to put my finger on it, that's why I was asking for feedback.

I was thinking it needed an intro verse of some sort to tell who is giving the advice, but I can't stand one more "Grandpa told me" thingy.

Sometimes the more educated we get (not wise), we tend to forget simple basic truths.

Some things are just universally true, like don't take other people's stuff, whether it's their baseball or their 401K.

You see the point I'm trying to make, but I'm so frustrated trying to get it right. Like Mark Twain.  Maybe I should use Mark as an intro verse? lol cus we all learned something from Huck Finn didn't we?
Title: Re: Kindergarten
Post by: serenowolf on March 27, 2026, 07:08:01 pm
Not gonna lie that's impressive from memory! Haha...cool song, eager to see how it evolves!
Title: Re: Kindergarten
Post by: redwriter1 on March 27, 2026, 02:10:51 pm
Thanks again for feedback.  I didn't want to use the whole poster that would plagiarism I'm assuming.

Just for other's reference, here is the back of the book.

Keep in mind, I actually wrote this lyric from memory of the poster from years ago, I was actually shocked when I looked it up that I got alot of them right at all.. LOL

https://www.amazon.com/Really-Need-Know-Learned-Kindergarten/dp/0394571029 (https://www.amazon.com/Really-Need-Know-Learned-Kindergarten/dp/0394571029)
Title: Re: Kindergarten
Post by: serenowolf on March 27, 2026, 01:21:41 pm
That's pretty cool and knowing about the poster (just googled it), the song comes together a little more...I think you did a nice job of showcasing that....interestingly, he actually wrote closer to what I suggested..."don't take things that aren't yours"...but I think the way I talked about using previous lines to build instead of restating stands...notably, the first verse wasn't really in that poster, which is fine, but it illustrates what I said about those being more adult concepts...I also think the verses in general have higher language, so juxtaposition of the simple phrases in the chorus is a little jarring...I think you have a real opportunity to say something really meaningful, I'd like to emphasize I love the vibe of the first verse to that regard...I think things he said in the poster that stood out to me weren't really hit though, like saying sorry when you hurt someone, the why is really important...or the we all die, though that's a little dark and maybe not what you're going for...I like where you're going...and glad you found value in the feedback....really do wish you the best!
Title: Re: Kindergarten
Post by: billdraper on March 27, 2026, 12:40:14 pm
Great song! Loved it. :)  :)
Title: Re: Kindergarten
Post by: redwriter1 on March 27, 2026, 12:25:52 pm
Thank you for the extremely thoughtful feedback!! You are the people I want here!!

I loosely based this song idea on Robert Fulgham's book and poster called "Everything I needed to know I learned in Kindergarten". 

So the chorus is based on that poster in the words the way we talk to children. (cus that's wrong).

The verses are deeper topics for adults , so I was trying to bridge the gap between learning the basics in kindergarten and then moving on to life topics.

Yeah, I don't like long intro's either, I will fix that. 

All of your points are very much appreciated and that's why I love this forum!

(p.s. google the poster) and maybe I picked the wrong things off the poster..... ?
Title: Re: Kindergarten
Post by: serenowolf on March 27, 2026, 12:16:31 pm
I really like how this song starts...it sounds very profound...and I love the soft rhymes of  watchin, see, darlin (with in sung a little more een the way is done)...just sounds really nice...I think shakin is outta place there though...I think it needs something else there...I'm gonna be honest and say I thought you were gonna tell a story, a lesson learned...but when you say the kindergarten line, it strikes odd and out of left field IMO...because the things you mentioned in the first verse don't really apply to that concept. They are deeper, more profound lessons you learn as you grow. I also think overall, the whole song reads like a beauty pageant winner saying she wants to end world hunger...I think you can say a lot more with the bones you laid out...I'd consider changing the whole kindergarten concept and telling a story that shows what you're trying to say...but if you are set on kindergarten, I would still tell that story in the second verse...and bridge...just make sure the chorus ties it all together...if what you are going for is simply an advice song...then it needs to be clear who you are giving the advice to and why...it hits harder if someone can relate to either the speaker or the listener in specificity, not so much genericisms. Think Simple Man...there's a song in Spanish from Los Tigres del Norte that does this beautifully too...it's called Cuando se llega a Viejo...worth a listen and if needed, a Google translate of the lyrics lol...additionally, I think the chorus needs more of a lift, we get it in the middle with "wonder at the weather" but I think it takes too long to get there...I also think that line is odd as I don't typically associate that with children or kindergarten...think you can do better there..."cus that's wrong" sounds a little forced, maybe "and leave them there if they're not yours" or something like that, you already said things, so you can build off of it instead of restating it....Lastly, I like the music and the intro is nice but I think it can be shortened a measure...runs a little long...I thought the lyrics would start at about 10 sec but they didn't until 25-30 sec...that's valuable story telling time 🙂...looking fwd to see what this one becomes...good luck!!
Title: Re: Kindergarten
Post by: Marsha on March 25, 2026, 04:14:18 pm
I like the premise here, but I think some of the lines could be more on point. The chorus is damn good!
Title: Re: Kindergarten
Post by: redwriter1 on March 23, 2026, 06:28:02 pm
Dang Tex, I can't believe I missed that!! Good catch.

Any other thoughts of the definitions in verse 2, I don't think they land quite right.
Title: Re: Kindergarten
Post by: Tex on March 23, 2026, 06:00:03 pm
I like the way you put in female vocal and it gives you a male singer.

Just a suggestion how about ending the 2nd verse like the first verse, you do have this titled Kindergarten. 

So far so good.
Title: Kindergarten
Post by: redwriter1 on March 23, 2026, 03:18:28 pm
https://suno.com/s/IJpHvbHE5jXLGG59

Verse two seems a little weak in my descriptions. Any suggestions are welcome. Thank you!


Character is what you do
when nobody' else is watchin
Courage is knockin on the door
even if your hands are shakin
Faith is believing in things that you can't see
and love is all that's really real, darlin
all you need to know you learned
in kindergarten

CHORUS

Share everything and play fair
say you're sorry  like you really care
put things back where they belong
don't take other people's things cus that's wrong
clean up your own mess & wonder at the weather
and when you go out in this world
hold hands...... and stick together

Honesty is not the same as lies that we don't tell
Sincerity is putting someone's needs above yourself
Humility is doing things that noone ever sees
like giving without recognition
and everything that means

CHORUS
Share everything and play fair
say you're sorry like you really care
put things back where they belong
don't take other people's things cus that's wrong
clean up your own mess & wonder at the weather
and when you go out in this world
hold hands...... and stick together

Bridge

I'm a firm believer, in higher education
but what if we all ran this world...............
like we were all still  seven................


CHORUS
We'd Share everything and play fair
say we're sorry like we really care
 put things back where they belong
don't take other poeple's things cus that's wrong
clean up our own mess & wonder at the weather
and when we go out in this world
we'd hold hands...... and stick together

yea just hold hands.....

and stick together